July 26, 2012
weirdfolio:

fuckyeahcharr:

theitinerantmesmersjournal:

citriplays:

theitinerantmesmersjournal:

diaryofanundercovermonk:

This is how much Citri loves siege turtles.

I bet Citri is happy she won’t have to deal with them ever again after next month. Well, until the inevitable GW2 expansion to return to Cantha. :P

It’s my guess that because Cantha was cut off from the rest of the world, they have no choice but to feast on all the siege turtles in the land for survival >:D

Oh, I don’t know about that. A siege turtle can produce a LOT of meat, and if memory serves me right, they produce a LOT of young too, so. (raises eyebrow)
(Technical note and apology; I wasn’t paying attention and accidentally reblogged the last two posts to my main blog instead of this one. Fixed now. :P)

I don’t even know how those cannons were supposed to work. I mean…

Take a good look at that. It’s just… I’m sorry. But to my knowledge, you don’t make a cannon like that. Because ballistics.
See, you have a massive barrel girth and a smallish bullet-shaped projectile… look at the size of the projectile versus the barrel in the picture… that just… even if it could manage to fire in a sane manner, due to the way the barrel is designed (with an evacuation route that looks like flared trousers), the trajectory is just going to be wacky.
Could it even fire in the first place? I’m not convinced it could.
See, there are reasons that cannons and cannonballs are shaped the way they’re shaped. And reasons why they aren’t shaped like that.
It’s like someone tried to make a cannon look like a giant musket but it doesn’t work that way. Again, at least not to my knowledge. And sure, it could simply have a really thick barrel with not much actual space there… but looking at another image, that actually isn’t the case. I’m almost sad about that.
I could be wrong about this, sure. But my goodness, to me that just looks tremendously silly. What is it with the GW Universe and derpy groups of humans?
And if I am right…
The charr, just starting off down the road to technological understanding, would most likely have gotten their hands on a Luxon cannon just to see how other races approach non-magical weaponry, but I suspect that all that they would have learned from this were quite helpful lessons about how one doesn’t make a cannon.
I could imagine a warband of charr tinkerers… staring at this thing, for a straight half an hour, wondering what questionable and mind-altering substances the Luxons were imbibing… before falling flat on their furred arses and laughing and laughing and laughing. I really wouldn’t blame them.
It’s just… unless I’m missing something, which I might be… that’s just such a derp cannon. My goodness.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here, but…
This is kind of breaking me.
I’m not looking at that cannon any more, now.

I think the problem is that this isn’t a Cannon at all but a Bombard. It’s the forerunner of the cannon and it must be installed likewise the siege turtles “cannon” is. Nethertheless the ballistic of a bombard is really awfull. Bombards are like horizontal angled mortars with longer Barrels. Zhey shot stone projectiles instead of cannonballs but to hit something is mostly gambling. So you have to aim with a dozen bombards ond hope to hit with one of them.


See, there you go. 

The Luxon siege turtle cannon - excuse me, bombard - is a medieval/early-Renaissance weapon at best.  As such, fyeahcharr’s notional warband must have been examining that Luxon bombard pretty much close to the time of the original GW 1, I daresay. 

Charr weapons are firmly Industrial Revolution. Even early-20th century, judging from that they’ve developed Panzerkampfwagen. (Don’t ask me who the Charr Rommel or Patton is. :P ) Medieval Luxon (and I do use that term advisedly - remember the cosmology that was put on display in Nahpui Quarter? Well, that was general Canthan rather than strictly Luxon, but you get my drift.) and modern Charr weaponeers are working from different sets of technological databases and assumptions.
That actually raises the question of where Canthan technology is at nowadays. Back in the days of GW 1, it was more or less the most advanced in Tyria, but that was before the Emperor Usoku forcibly imposed the authority of Kaineng upon the Luxons and Kurzick and, Tokugawa-style, sealed Cantha off from the outside world. I was teasing Citri earlier about the first GW2 expansion being to travel to and open up Cantha, but now I’m wondering if maybe that’s not exactly what we’re going to see down the road, with a Charr Commodore Perry leading a fleet of “Black Ships” into Shing Jea Monastery Bay and demanding, politely, that the Master of the monastery convey a message to the Imperial Palace in Kaineng.

At any rate, we’d finally get to see how Charr do as sailors.

weirdfolio:

fuckyeahcharr:

theitinerantmesmersjournal:

citriplays:

theitinerantmesmersjournal:

diaryofanundercovermonk:

This is how much Citri loves siege turtles.

I bet Citri is happy she won’t have to deal with them ever again after next month. Well, until the inevitable GW2 expansion to return to Cantha. :P

It’s my guess that because Cantha was cut off from the rest of the world, they have no choice but to feast on all the siege turtles in the land for survival >:D

Oh, I don’t know about that. A siege turtle can produce a LOT of meat, and if memory serves me right, they produce a LOT of young too, so. (raises eyebrow)

(Technical note and apology; I wasn’t paying attention and accidentally reblogged the last two posts to my main blog instead of this one. Fixed now. :P)

I don’t even know how those cannons were supposed to work. I mean…

Take a good look at that. It’s just… I’m sorry. But to my knowledge, you don’t make a cannon like that. Because ballistics.

See, you have a massive barrel girth and a smallish bullet-shaped projectile… look at the size of the projectile versus the barrel in the picture… that just… even if it could manage to fire in a sane manner, due to the way the barrel is designed (with an evacuation route that looks like flared trousers), the trajectory is just going to be wacky.

Could it even fire in the first place? I’m not convinced it could.

See, there are reasons that cannons and cannonballs are shaped the way they’re shaped. And reasons why they aren’t shaped like that.

It’s like someone tried to make a cannon look like a giant musket but it doesn’t work that way. Again, at least not to my knowledge. And sure, it could simply have a really thick barrel with not much actual space there… but looking at another image, that actually isn’t the case. I’m almost sad about that.

I could be wrong about this, sure. But my goodness, to me that just looks tremendously silly. What is it with the GW Universe and derpy groups of humans?

And if I am right…

The charr, just starting off down the road to technological understanding, would most likely have gotten their hands on a Luxon cannon just to see how other races approach non-magical weaponry, but I suspect that all that they would have learned from this were quite helpful lessons about how one doesn’t make a cannon.

I could imagine a warband of charr tinkerers… staring at this thing, for a straight half an hour, wondering what questionable and mind-altering substances the Luxons were imbibing… before falling flat on their furred arses and laughing and laughing and laughing. I really wouldn’t blame them.

It’s just… unless I’m missing something, which I might be… that’s just such a derp cannon. My goodness.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here, but…

This is kind of breaking me.

I’m not looking at that cannon any more, now.

I think the problem is that this isn’t a Cannon at all but a Bombard. It’s the forerunner of the cannon and it must be installed likewise the siege turtles “cannon” is. Nethertheless the ballistic of a bombard is really awfull. Bombards are like horizontal angled mortars with longer Barrels. Zhey shot stone projectiles instead of cannonballs but to hit something is mostly gambling. So you have to aim with a dozen bombards ond hope to hit with one of them.

Bombard

See, there you go. 

The Luxon siege turtle cannon - excuse me, bombard - is a medieval/early-Renaissance weapon at best.  As such, fyeahcharr’s notional warband must have been examining that Luxon bombard pretty much close to the time of the original GW 1, I daresay. 

Charr weapons are firmly Industrial Revolution. Even early-20th century, judging from that they’ve developed Panzerkampfwagen. (Don’t ask me who the Charr Rommel or Patton is. :P ) Medieval Luxon (and I do use that term advisedly - remember the cosmology that was put on display in Nahpui Quarter? Well, that was general Canthan rather than strictly Luxon, but you get my drift.) and modern Charr weaponeers are working from different sets of technological databases and assumptions.

That actually raises the question of where Canthan technology is at nowadays. Back in the days of GW 1, it was more or less the most advanced in Tyria, but that was before the Emperor Usoku forcibly imposed the authority of Kaineng upon the Luxons and Kurzick and, Tokugawa-style, sealed Cantha off from the outside world. I was teasing Citri earlier about the first GW2 expansion being to travel to and open up Cantha, but now I’m wondering if maybe that’s not exactly what we’re going to see down the road, with a Charr Commodore Perry leading a fleet of “Black Ships” into Shing Jea Monastery Bay and demanding, politely, that the Master of the monastery convey a message to the Imperial Palace in Kaineng.

At any rate, we’d finally get to see how Charr do as sailors.

(Source: theasuranotebook)

June 30, 2012
fuckyeahcharr:

emberfoot:

A Charr mining operation.

It’s… that automated? Seriously?
Man, I knew the charr were advanced, but I didn’t realise they were that advanced. This pleases me. See, now I know that they have top-notch bucket-wheel excavators, and that’s really no small thing. Reason being is that we didn’t even get basic versions of those until the 1920s, and the one there looks way more advanced than those - having more in common with modern models.
I’m just… very, very pleased by this.
(I’ve often expressed my tiredness at people who write fantasy not having the balls to do any genre mashing, not even daring to interrupt the ‘genre purity’ of ‘true fantasy’ and so on. But ArenaNet give zero fucks about that. Yay ArenaNet!)
Thanks for sharing!

It’s of a piece with the other technology the Charr have been shown to have, and it’s further proof, as if any were needed, that they’re in the midst of their Industrial Revolution. I think it’s a fairly strong possibility now that the Charr are experimenting with wireless (radio), photography, heavier-than-air flight and other such technologies, if they don’t already possess them.  We can also probably take it as a given that the Charr have developed germ theory (and its corollary, antisepsis) with the corresponding advances in medicine and sanitation. Speaking of which, the Black Citadel is one of the cleanest industrial cities I’ve ever seen, and the mine pictured above is surprisingly neat and well-ordered as mines go.  Charr seem to have a nearly Germanic predilection for orderliness.

EDIT: Interestingly enough, theres’ an ongoing discussion on alternatehistory.com about just this topic of why fantasy worlds seem to have static medieval technology. I cited Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 as one case where this isn’t true.

fuckyeahcharr:

emberfoot:

A Charr mining operation.

It’s… that automated? Seriously?

Man, I knew the charr were advanced, but I didn’t realise they were that advanced. This pleases me. See, now I know that they have top-notch bucket-wheel excavators, and that’s really no small thing. Reason being is that we didn’t even get basic versions of those until the 1920s, and the one there looks way more advanced than those - having more in common with modern models.

I’m just… very, very pleased by this.

(I’ve often expressed my tiredness at people who write fantasy not having the balls to do any genre mashing, not even daring to interrupt the ‘genre purity’ of ‘true fantasy’ and so on. But ArenaNet give zero fucks about that. Yay ArenaNet!)

Thanks for sharing!

It’s of a piece with the other technology the Charr have been shown to have, and it’s further proof, as if any were needed, that they’re in the midst of their Industrial Revolution. I think it’s a fairly strong possibility now that the Charr are experimenting with wireless (radio), photography, heavier-than-air flight and other such technologies, if they don’t already possess them.  We can also probably take it as a given that the Charr have developed germ theory (and its corollary, antisepsis) with the corresponding advances in medicine and sanitation. Speaking of which, the Black Citadel is one of the cleanest industrial cities I’ve ever seen, and the mine pictured above is surprisingly neat and well-ordered as mines go.  Charr seem to have a nearly Germanic predilection for orderliness.

EDIT: Interestingly enough, theres’ an ongoing discussion on alternatehistory.com about just this topic of why fantasy worlds seem to have static medieval technology. I cited Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 as one case where this isn’t true.

June 26, 2012
[Lore Piece] More on Metals.

fuckyeahcharr:

Here are weirdfolio’s thoughts on the matter.

I’m doing this because replies are a bit broken at the moment, and this way I can include cuts! And thus, more thoughts from me are beyond the read more link.

So, first of all, click that above and have a read of weird’s ideas on the matter. It’s actually an enjoyable little read, because it’s insightful, and it shows how mythology in general plays up to these ideas.

Read More

These are actually really good points, weird! Metal has been used against various creatures of magical inclinations in mythology, but I hadn’t really thought of it as actually disrupting their ethereal fields. I actually like the idea. It’s very Ghostbusters, and that appeals to me.

Despite it having appeared in mythology, it’s never actually been explained quite this way, and the idea is appealing to me. It basically means that magic is just another type of energy which has properties which can warp reality (which is why it’s so corruptive), and what a ‘mage’ is is someone who can manipulate the natural magical field to produce elements seemingly out of nowhere.

But again, it gets interesting because…

If you dip too deeply into the magical field, it can have adverse effects, such as drawing on the very life force of all things nearby in order to fulfil what it needs to, so perhaps magic is tied into life force. Hence Necromancy. See, those asura generators from Eye of the North still play on my mind. You know, the levitation ones. Where one asura was told that they were draining the life force out of the land localised to them, and that the asura found this ‘preposterous.’

It might not be so preposterous after all.

Magic itself might be a finite thing, and in order to well it up in one area, you have to actually take it from something else. This could even be a good weapon against the dragons, since if you setup a few magic absorbers and dissipators, you could really mess up a dragon. If certain metals do have these properties, then that’s basically a bombshell for that world, literally.

I mean, let’s say that you have a metal that in certain states of its life hungrily absorbs nearby magical fields, thus creating a magical ‘dead zone,’ now what if you built a large shell out of that and shot it into the gut of a dragon? That could be fairly deadly to the elders, since you’re basically disrupting their magical field, and that’s an important part of their very definition, they are magical beings after all.

Here’s the interesting thing: I think gold is pretty much going to be the conductive, absorbing metal for magic, whereas iron is going to be the dissipative, dispersing one. Why? Gold is the only magic the asura use, so in large amounts it could absorb far too much magic. They use it on golems, and I think the reason for that is to channel magic around the golem, allowing it to move. Iron, used by the charr, is basically a defence.

If you build your tank with iron plates, then fireballs just bounce off of it because it’s essentially an anti-magic field. It doesn’t matter what you create from magic because the metal itself attacks the very field of its creation.

This could also be why the charr don’t use gold - because they know as much (or probably way more, since they are the metal fetishists) about its effects than even the asura and they don’t want magic coalescing around their city, because they know it could have a negative effect on their sanity, even their lifespans, and as such… well, think of it as lead to radioactivity, same principle.

One thing to watch out for when we start playing the game is how much gold is used in asura ‘circuitry,’ since that could be telling.

Anyway, wrapping up. The funny thing is that this could all easily be true. In fact, this could even be implied by ArenaNet. See, in Guild Wars we were already aware that types of minerals could store magical energies. The ‘mind cores’ used in golems basically being magic spells bound permanently into a mineral, a jewel to be precise. But yeah, the ability to warp the natural magical field could extend to metals. It would make a weird sort of sense.

Man, you know… ArenaNet should read us. You, me, itinerant, and all the other lore people around here. They’d get so many good ideas. >_>

If ArenaNet does read us. HELLO ARENANET!

*coughs.*

Sorry.

I’m going to take this and go off on yet another - hopefully related! - tangent.

In the process of researching various methods of combating and defeating the Elder Dragons and their minions, and the best methods, materials and processes of same, we could be seeing the development of various “modern” scientific fields among both the Charr and the Asura, as well as a sort of bifurcation of roles wherein the Charr become the “applied” scientists and the Asura become the “pure” scientists.

We’re already seeing something of that in-game. We know that the Charr are an intensely practical-minded race, for whom the object of research always needs to be something useful, in peace or in war (this ties in, once again, to the parallels we’ve previously drawn between the Charr and the republican Romans; the Romans were never much for “pure” research, but were the greatest engineers of the ancient Western world). Conversely, the Asura seem to be motivated much more by the pure joy of seeking and discovering knowledge, or as one of favorite webcomics, Girl Genius, puts it, “For Science!” (I’m almost exploding with glee thinking of the potential for crossover fanfiction if Agatha Heterodyne and her friends somehow end up in Tyria, but that’s a whole different subject. :D)

So, I’m thinking of how fields like physics and “pure” chemistry could develop among the Asura, and conversely, the development of metallurgy, industrial chemistry and other such things among the Charr. This actually comes around to bringing the Charr and Asura together again, as this produces a neat division of labor; the Asura delve into the basic properties of metal to deduce its magical effects and determine how they affect the Elder Dragons, whereas the Charr carry out their own research into the practicalities of mining, smelting, refining, alloying and forming metal into the implements needed to fight the Dragons.  Here’s a good example. Let’s say we have a joint Charr-Asura team working on plate armor for your hypothetical tank. Glorp, the Asura alchemist, works in researching the magical properties of various types of metal to determine what types provide the best magical resistance to, say, an ice attack by Jormag, while Gaius Ironsmelt, the Charr metallurgist, works on figuring out how to create the most effective alloy of the magical metal with other suitable types of metal and the most defensively effective arrangement of the armor plating.

Speculation is solicited as to how Humans, Sylvari and Norn would view these goings-on. :D

June 3, 2012

fuckyeahcharr:

theitinerantmesmersjournal:

fuckyeahcharr:

I thought I’d take a post to highlight how we’re getting to Orr! Charr zeppelins! I’m using this to highlight a number of design aesthetics that the charr tend to rely upon when building things. So this is something of a lore piece.

Charr design tends to be bulbous, often rounded in nature. I imagine this is because when they began metalworking, they cast their metals via bronzed devourer husks (and we know those things can get really big), so that stuck with them, and they don’t cast as we do. Due to this link with insects (devourers), the look of charr construction is also slightly insectoid.

It has a chitinous look to it, often constructed of interlinked plates, and with spikes added on because the charr love their spiky things. Grills and exhaust pipes are also prominent feature due to how many of the charr clockpunk contraptions are actually powered by steam, and steam needs to be permitted to escape. So we can see from those pictures that the propulsion system of that airship is indeed powered by steam.

And the charr use metals wherever they can as opposed to other materials. Even going so far as to prefer the use of light but strong metallic chains to do a job where we’d normally use ropes. And there are many chains present on that airship. These are all hallmarks of charr design, and the only other trademark of note is that the charr like circular, spinning elements to their designs, gears and elements similar to them.

If you look around the Black Citadel and at many charr inventions, they all share elements of what I’ve described above, it’s all down to how the charr methods of both aesthetics and construction work. Often, a design will be pragmatic first, only prettied up if that can be done in ways that don’t affect the underlying functionality of the device. (But the charr do have their own distinctive take on cultural art, such as their utilisation of purposeless gears. But they fetishise the gear as symboogy of their advancement and power. I can’t blame them, though. Gears are cool.)

This is just to highlight how charr production has evolved both aesthetically and functionally, and how it’s different to what we would consider a standard. Human construction tends to be cuboid by its nature unless we need to make something that isn’t. Charr design tends to be much more organic in appearance.

In light of the above, the various things we see in the Cathedral of Flames dungeon in GW:EOTN take on a whole new aspect. Even though the complex had been taken over by the Flame Legion’s Shamans, it’s pretty obvious that it was previously a combination of mine and factory. Levels 1 and 2 in particular are filled with mining and metalworking equipment, including what looks very much like a smelter or one of those things you see in steel mills (Bessemer something?) I suspect the place originally belonged to the Iron Legion, and that Pyre arranged for it to be returned to its rightful owners after the northern provinces (Grothmar, Dalada and Sacnoth) were liberated.

I completely agree that this is possible, and in fact, highly probable.

If I remember correctly, the machinery in the Cathedral held a lot of similarities with what we see of charr technology today. In fact, some of it straight up reminds me of what the Black Citadel looks like, now that I think about it. An interesting point, really. It’s one that I argued for with the lore masters back in the day.

I argued that it was likely that the Flame Legion took control of the facility away from the Iron Legion in order to keep the technology out of charr hands. I think that it’s fair to say that the Flame Legion feared anything that went beyond basic technology and took control over such installations, only allowing the Iron Legion to smith whilst monitored by them. The reason I say this is because the forward thinking shamans likely saw the progressive Iron Legion as something that would threaten their rule if not carefully controlled.

What would be the point of using magic to create the Searing (as a political move) if the Iron Legion were able to get a similar result with machines of war? So the Flame Legion likely took control over all production facilities in order to curtail production and progression of Iron Legion technology. This also means that before the Iron Legion was enslaved by Flame, they were already on a constant forward march to technological superiority.

Of course, one of the points I had flung at me was that it could have been dwarven or dredge. But after having seen what both of these look like in Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2, I honestly have to say that what was in the Cathedral of Flames was probably charr rather than anything else, because looking back on it it does share a lot of aesthetic values with what I’ve come to know as charr in Guild Wars 2. If that is the case, then ArenaNet is seriously forward thinking.

And it makes next to no sense that the Flame Legion would have dwarven equipment in their cathedral. So the greatest likelihood is that it was indeed originally an Iron Legion stronghold that was taken from them after the Flame Legion took over.

So ultimately - I agree!

And this just goes to show just how deep the rabbit hole went in regards to how much control the Flame Legion had over the other legions at that time.

June 3, 2012
Tyria United: [Lore Piece] Charr Technology.

fuckyeahcharr:

I thought I’d do another one of these, again.

The End of the Age of Magic

What the charr discovered via the Flame Legion was that magic by its very nature wasn’t something that could be controlled, and because of it’s very nature, it was often something that would control…

June 2, 2012

fuckyeahcharr:

I thought I’d take a post to highlight how we’re getting to Orr! Charr zeppelins! I’m using this to highlight a number of design aesthetics that the charr tend to rely upon when building things. So this is something of a lore piece.

Charr design tends to be bulbous, often rounded in nature. I imagine this is because when they began metalworking, they cast their metals via bronzed devourer husks (and we know those things can get really big), so that stuck with them, and they don’t cast as we do. Due to this link with insects (devourers), the look of charr construction is also slightly insectoid.

It has a chitinous look to it, often constructed of interlinked plates, and with spikes added on because the charr love their spiky things. Grills and exhaust pipes are also prominent feature due to how many of the charr clockpunk contraptions are actually powered by steam, and steam needs to be permitted to escape. So we can see from those pictures that the propulsion system of that airship is indeed powered by steam.

And the charr use metals wherever they can as opposed to other materials. Even going so far as to prefer the use of light but strong metallic chains to do a job where we’d normally use ropes. And there are many chains present on that airship. These are all hallmarks of charr design, and the only other trademark of note is that the charr like circular, spinning elements to their designs, gears and elements similar to them.

If you look around the Black Citadel and at many charr inventions, they all share elements of what I’ve described above, it’s all down to how the charr methods of both aesthetics and construction work. Often, a design will be pragmatic first, only prettied up if that can be done in ways that don’t affect the underlying functionality of the device. (But the charr do have their own distinctive take on cultural art, such as their utilisation of purposeless gears. But they fetishise the gear as symboogy of their advancement and power. I can’t blame them, though. Gears are cool.)

This is just to highlight how charr production has evolved both aesthetically and functionally, and how it’s different to what we would consider a standard. Human construction tends to be cuboid by its nature unless we need to make something that isn’t. Charr design tends to be much more organic in appearance.

In light of the above, the various things we see in the Cathedral of Flames dungeon in GW:EOTN take on a whole new aspect. Even though the complex had been taken over by the Flame Legion’s Shamans, it’s pretty obvious that it was previously a combination of mine and factory. Levels 1 and 2 in particular are filled with mining and metalworking equipment, including what looks very much like a smelter or one of those things you see in steel mills (Bessemer something?) I suspect the place originally belonged to the Iron Legion, and that Pyre arranged for it to be returned to its rightful owners after the northern provinces (Grothmar, Dalada and Sacnoth) were liberated.

(via tyriaunited)